Falling rate of profit - Revision history

Azadsingh2: typo

2026-08-28T15:40:29Z

typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:40, 28 August 2026
Line 24:		Line 24:
	Capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).		Capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).

	The tendency is an outgrowth the [[dialectical]] contradiction between use-value and value within the commodity.		The tendency is an outgrowth of the [[dialectical]] contradiction between use-value and value within the commodity.

	== See also ==		== See also ==

Azadsingh2: dialectics

2026-08-28T15:40:18Z

dialectics

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:40, 28 August 2026
Line 23:		Line 23:
	=== The significance ===		=== The significance ===
	Capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).		Capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).

			The tendency is an outgrowth the [[dialectical]] contradiction between use-value and value within the commodity.

	== See also ==		== See also ==

Azadsingh2: category

2026-08-28T15:38:52Z

Azadsingh2: Human approved

2026-08-28T15:38:32Z

Human approved

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 28 August 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	'''The tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' — Marx~~'s law of capitalism's self-undermining~~, ~~fully exposited by Haz in debate~~.		'''The tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' was discovered by Marx as the conclusion to Das Kapital, Volume I.

	== From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream] ==		==Summary==

			Value is the socially-necessary labor (measured by time and duration) to reproduce a commodity.

			When physical means of production are used in producing a commodity, their value as ''dead labor'' gets added on to the value of the ''living labor'' incorporated in the commodity.

			But how does capital make a profit? Because it does not pay for the full value of the living labor, but for the value of the labor-power, i.e. the worker's capacity to do labor. To reproduce the commodity that is labor-power, all you need is to reproduce a worker: Therefore, the value of the labor-power is the cost of the worker's expected standard of living. Basically, once the worker surpasses a certain number of hours, they are creating more than they need to live, and therefore generating a profit called '''surplus value'''. The longer capital makes its workers toil, the more surplus they generate. (Though this is limited because if you work them too long, the quality of their labor-power declines: their health declines, their motivation declines, they produce less, and it's no longer worth it. This is one motivation for the bourgeois to concede the 8-hour working day.)

			However, this surplus is only extracted from living labor, not dead labor. Over time, the proportion of dead labor to living labor grows, as we start using tools, machines, robots, etc. Therefore, '''the rate of profit falls.'''

			(Living labor vs dead labor is also referred to as variable capital (labor-power) vs constant capital (non-human means of production).)

			==From the streams==

			From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream]:

	> "Capital's production aims not for use values but for exchange value expanding... Production for exchange value runs into contradictions — one being the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. These tendencies reveal a contradiction between the use value necessary for society and the exchange value... Society is at a fork: production at the level of what's necessary for society as society sees fit, versus what's necessary for the valorization of capital.		> "Capital's production aims not for use values but for exchange value expanding... Production for exchange value runs into contradictions — one being the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. These tendencies reveal a contradiction between the use value necessary for society and the exchange value... Society is at a fork: production at the level of what's necessary for society as society sees fit, versus what's necessary for the valorization of capital.
Line 7:		Line 21:
	> The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is a consequence of overproduction. Marx regarded that contradiction as incredibly ironic: overproduction — creating more abundance, more wealth — yet at the level of the commodity form and exchange value, it's actually the depletion of wealth... Marx regards that as the foundation of a new mode of production based on use value."		> The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is a consequence of overproduction. Marx regarded that contradiction as incredibly ironic: overproduction — creating more abundance, more wealth — yet at the level of the commodity form and exchange value, it's actually the depletion of wealth... Marx regards that as the foundation of a new mode of production based on use value."

	== The significance ==		=== The significance ===
	~~Not an econometric prediction but a '''dialectical structure''': capital~~'s success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).		Capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[Economic Calculation Problem]]		* [[Economic Calculation Problem]]
			* [[Crisis of Marxism]]

	== References ==		== References ==
Line 17:		Line 32:

	[[Category:Economics]][[Category:Marxism]][[Category:Theory]]		[[Category:Economics]][[Category:Marxism]][[Category:Theory]]
			[[Category: Dialectics]]
			[[Category: AI assisted]]

Azad Singh: Azad Singh moved page Tendency of the rate of profit to fall to Falling rate of profit

2026-08-28T15:20:50Z

Azad Singh moved page Tendency of the rate of profit to fall to Falling rate of profit

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:20, 28 August 2026
(No difference)

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T11:06:24Z

Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:06, 21 August 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	'''The tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' — Marx's law of capitalism's self-undermining ~~— gets a full exposition from~~ Haz in debate.		'''The tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' — Marx's law of capitalism's self-undermining, fully exposited by Haz in debate.

	== From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream] ==		== From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream] ==

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T10:53:01Z

Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:53, 21 August 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	~~The~~ '''tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' ~~(TRPF) is~~ Marx's law of capitalism's self-undermining — ~~presented by~~ Haz ~~Al-Din~~ in debate ~~as the hinge between value theory and civilizational choice~~.		'''The tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' — Marx's law of capitalism's self-undermining — gets a full exposition from Haz in debate.

	== ~~Haz's exposition ==~~		== From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream] ==
	From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream]:

	> "Capital's production aims not for use values but for exchange value expanding... Production for exchange value runs into contradictions — one being the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. These tendencies reveal a contradiction between the use value necessary for society and the exchange value... Society is at a fork: production at the level of what's necessary for society as society sees fit, versus what's necessary for the valorization of capital.		> "Capital's production aims not for use values but for exchange value expanding... Production for exchange value runs into contradictions — one being the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. These tendencies reveal a contradiction between the use value necessary for society and the exchange value... Society is at a fork: production at the level of what's necessary for society as society sees fit, versus what's necessary for the valorization of capital.
Line 9:		Line 8:

	== The significance ==		== The significance ==
	* TRPF is not an econometric prediction but a '''dialectical structure''': capital's success in producing abundance ~~is registered~~ as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism~~, war, artificial scarcity~~).		Not an econometric prediction but a '''dialectical structure''': capital's success producing abundance registers as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism). It grounds [[We already live in socialism]]: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social ([[Capitalist Socialism]]).
	* It grounds ~~the~~ [[We already live in socialism]] ~~thesis~~: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social.

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[~~Capitalist Socialism]]~~		* [[Economic Calculation Problem]]
	* [[We already live in socialism]]

	== References ==		== References ==

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T09:54:41Z

Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:54, 21 August 2026
Line 1:		Line 1:
	The '''tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' (TRPF) is a law of ~~capitalist development identified by Marx in Volume III of~~ '~~'Capital''. As capitalists compete, they raise labor productivity~~ by ~~investing~~ in ~~machinery — raising~~ the ~~organic composition of capital (c/v). Since (per Marx's labor~~ theory ~~of value) only living labor produces surplus value, the rate of profit s/(c+v) tends to fall over time, even as the mass of profit grows~~.		The '''tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' (TRPF) is Marx's law of capitalism's self-undermining — presented by Haz Al-Din in debate as the hinge between value theory and civilizational choice.

	== ~~Countervailing tendencies~~ ==		== Haz's exposition ==
	~~Marx listed counteracting factors~~: ~~increasing the intensity of exploitation, depressing wages below the value of labor~~-~~power, cheapening the elements of constant capital, relative overpopulation, foreign trade, and the stock system~~. ~~The law therefore operates as a tendency, manifesting in crises, restructuring, and expansion into new markets~~.		From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/2aaac100-82e8-4b5e-b568-7b49cfaac04f/ DEBATE BLOODSPORTS stream]:

	~~== Significance ==~~		> "Capital's production aims not for use values but for exchange value expanding... Production for exchange value runs into contradictions — one being the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. These tendencies reveal a contradiction between the use value necessary for society and the exchange value... Society is at a fork: production at the level of what's necessary for society as society sees fit, versus what's necessary for the valorization of capital.
	* The TRPF grounds the ~~Marxist explanation~~ of ~~capitalist crisis as internal~~ to the ~~system~~, ~~not accidental~~.
	* It explains capitalism's compulsive expansionism: ~~imperialism~~, ~~globalization~~, ~~and~~ the ~~drive to commodify all~~ of ~~social life are responses to profitability pressure~~.		> The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is a consequence of overproduction. Marx regarded that contradiction as incredibly ironic: overproduction — creating more abundance, more wealth — yet at the level of the commodity form and exchange value, it's actually the depletion of wealth... Marx regards that as the foundation of a new mode of production based on use value."
	* ~~Heterodox economists (e.g.~~, the ~~monthly~~-~~review school~~, ~~Anwar Sha~~, ~~Michael Roberts~~) ~~have produced empirical studies supporting a falling rate of profit~~ in the ~~advanced economies since~~ the ~~postwar boom~~.
			== The significance ==
			* TRPF is not an econometric prediction but a '''dialectical structure''': capital's success in producing abundance is registered as failure in value terms — hence crisis, hence the forced choice between use-value production (socialism) and value-destruction (barbarism, war, artificial scarcity).
			* It grounds the [[We already live in socialism]] thesis: socialized production has outgrown the value-form; only command by the value-form keeps abundance from being social.

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[~~Capital~~]]		* [[Capitalist Socialism]]
	* [[~~Economic crisis~~]]		* [[We already live in socialism]]

	== References ==		== References ==
	<references/>		<references/>

	[[Category:~~Marxist theory~~]][[Category:~~Economics~~]]		[[Category:Economics]][[Category:Marxism]][[Category:Theory]]

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T08:50:37Z

Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

New page

The '''tendency of the rate of profit to fall''' (TRPF) is a law of capitalist development identified by Marx in Volume III of ''Capital''. As capitalists compete, they raise labor productivity by investing in machinery — raising the organic composition of capital (c/v). Since (per Marx's labor theory of value) only living labor produces surplus value, the rate of profit s/(c+v) tends to fall over time, even as the mass of profit grows.

== Countervailing tendencies ==
Marx listed counteracting factors: increasing the intensity of exploitation, depressing wages below the value of labor-power, cheapening the elements of constant capital, relative overpopulation, foreign trade, and the stock system. The law therefore operates as a tendency, manifesting in crises, restructuring, and expansion into new markets.

== Significance ==
* The TRPF grounds the Marxist explanation of capitalist crisis as internal to the system, not accidental.
* It explains capitalism's compulsive expansionism: imperialism, globalization, and the drive to commodify all of social life are responses to profitability pressure.
* Heterodox economists (e.g., the monthly-review school, Anwar Sha, Michael Roberts) have produced empirical studies supporting a falling rate of profit in the advanced economies since the postwar boom.

== See also ==
* [[Capital]]
* [[Economic crisis]]

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Marxist theory]][[Category:Economics]]