Ottoman Empire - Revision history

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	~~The~~ '''~~Ottoman Empire'~~'' ~~appears in Haz Al-Din~~'~~s streams in two registers: as the historical~~ carrier of Islamic political order, and ~~as a~~ source of political ~~concepts~~.		'''The Ottomans''' — carrier of Islamic political order, and source of a political concept Haz keeps recommending.

	== The Circle of Justice ==		== The Circle of Justice ==
	From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/007a6ff2-3861-4c00-af25-e5aff3e9d04c/ INFRAWOKE stream], debating base/superstructure:		From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/007a6ff2-3861-4c00-af25-e5aff3e9d04c/ COMMUNISM WINNING \| INFRAWOKE stream], debating base/superstructure:

	> "There's this idea you should look up — ~~it's~~ a Persianate idea the Ottomans were known for being associated with, but everyone else was too. It's called the '''Circle of Justice'''. You can think about the Circle of Justice in materialist terms if you understand the relation of state to civil society and how they dialectically interact."		> "There's this idea you should look up — a Persianate idea the Ottomans were known for being associated with, but everyone else was too. It's called the '''Circle of Justice'''. You can think about the Circle of Justice in materialist terms if you understand the relation of state to civil society and how they dialectically interact."

	The Circle ~~of Justice~~ (no army without wealth, no wealth without taxation, no taxation without the peasant's prosperity, no prosperity without justice and good rule) ~~is cited~~ as an '''indigenous dialectical theory of state-society reciprocity''' — centuries before Hegel.		The Circle (no army without wealth, no wealth without taxation, no taxation without the peasant's prosperity, no prosperity without justice and good rule) as an '''indigenous dialectical theory of state-society reciprocity''' — centuries before Hegel.

	== The gunpowder empires ==		== The gunpowder empires ==
	Same stream~~, on Islam's political history~~: after Tamerlane reconciled dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with "the eternal religious truth," "Islam only then took the form of these massive gunpowder empires — combining the dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with Persianate imperial bureaucracy plus the religion of Islam." The Ottoman/Safavid/Mughal system was Islam's mature political form; ~~its destruction by~~ British colonialism "condemned ~~Islam~~ to languish, picked up only by the Wahhabis who completely distorted it into some kind of Talmudic false version based on textualism and formalism, with no content and no stakes in the actual material world."		Same stream: after Tamerlane reconciled dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with "the eternal religious truth," "Islam only then took the form of these massive gunpowder empires — combining the dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with Persianate imperial bureaucracy plus the religion of Islam." The Ottoman/Safavid/Mughal system was Islam's mature political form; British colonialism destroyed it and "Islam was condemned to languish, picked up only by the Wahhabis who completely distorted it into some kind of Talmudic false version based on textualism and formalism, with no content and no stakes in the actual material world."

	== Also ~~noted~~ ==		== Also ==
	~~The Ottomans'~~ support for the Union in the ~~American~~ Civil War ~~("You know who supported the Union? Russia did. The Ottoman Empire did.") appears in Haz's anti-confederate reading of American history~~ ([https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/0f7c08ea-3a3f-4a62-bfa0-69d5531d0cc6/ TRUE RED PILL NEWS stream]).		Ottoman support for the Union in the Civil War ([https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/0f7c08ea-3a3f-4a62-bfa0-69d5531d0cc6/ TRUE RED PILL NEWS stream]: "You know who supported the Union? Russia did. The Ottoman Empire did.").

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[Communism is Islam]]		* [[Communism is Islam]]
	* [[Sharia]]
	* [[Qing Dynasty]]		* [[Qing Dynasty]]

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T10:03:33Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 10:03, 21 August 2026
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	The '''Ottoman Empire''' ~~(1299–1922) was~~ the Islamic ~~world-state spanning three continents for six centuries —~~ and~~, in Infrared discourse,~~ a ~~key exhibit in rethinking what economic organization outside Western capitalism looks like~~.		The '''Ottoman Empire''' appears in Haz Al-Din's streams in two registers: as the historical carrier of Islamic political order, and as a source of political concepts.

	== ~~Features relevant to the discussion~~ ==		== The Circle of Justice ==
	* '''Timar system''': ~~land held in exchange for military service, not alienable private property — a feudal~~-~~military tenure blocking landlord accumulation~~.		From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/007a6ff2-3861-4c00-af25-e5aff3e9d04c/ INFRAWOKE stream], debating base/superstructure:
	* State control of strategic production: gunpowder, munitions, key manufactures as imperial monopolies; price regulation (''narh'') in Istanbul's markets.
	* The '''devshirme''' and the kul order: a slave-~~administrative elite serving the Sultan — the state standing above society's property classes.~~
	* Millet system: confessional self-~~governance of Christians and Jews under Islamic sovereignty — pluralism of a non~~-~~liberal type.~~
	* Decline through the 18th-~~19th centuries~~: ~~capitulations to European trade, debt administration (1881), finally dissolution through WWI and the nationalist revolution of Atatürk.~~

	== ~~Infrared usage~~ ==		> "There's this idea you should look up — it's a Persianate idea the Ottomans were known for being associated with, but everyone else was too. It's called the '''Circle of Justice'''. You can think about the Circle of Justice in materialist terms if you understand the relation of state to civil society and how they dialectically interact."
	~~Like the Qing~~, ~~the Ottomans appear in Haz~~'s ~~"actual socialism" provocations~~: ~~an economy subordinated to political~~-~~social ends~~, ~~usury legally constrained, markets governed~~ — ~~demonstrating that~~ the ~~capitalist market's primacy is historically exceptional, not universal~~. The ~~deeper point connects to [[Communism is~~ Islam~~]]: Islamic civilization possessed~~ its ~~own ordered political economy~~, ~~destroyed~~ by ~~colonial penetration~~, ~~whose recovery is part of~~ the anti-~~imperialist project~~ (~~see~~ [~~[Sharia]], [[Tawhid]], [[Qing Dynasty]~~]).
			The Circle of Justice (no army without wealth, no wealth without taxation, no taxation without the peasant's prosperity, no prosperity without justice and good rule) is cited as an '''indigenous dialectical theory of state-society reciprocity''' — centuries before Hegel.

			== The gunpowder empires ==
			Same stream, on Islam's political history: after Tamerlane reconciled dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with "the eternal religious truth," "Islam only then took the form of these massive gunpowder empires — combining the dynastic Turco-Mongol tradition with Persianate imperial bureaucracy plus the religion of Islam." The Ottoman/Safavid/Mughal system was Islam's mature political form; its destruction by British colonialism "condemned Islam to languish, picked up only by the Wahhabis who completely distorted it into some kind of Talmudic false version based on textualism and formalism, with no content and no stakes in the actual material world."

			== Also noted ==
			The Ottomans' support for the Union in the American Civil War ("You know who supported the Union? Russia did. The Ottoman Empire did.") appears in Haz's anti-confederate reading of American history ([https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/0f7c08ea-3a3f-4a62-bfa0-69d5531d0cc6/ TRUE RED PILL NEWS stream]).

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[Communism is Islam]]		* [[Communism is Islam]]
			* [[Sharia]]
	* [[Qing Dynasty]]		* [[Qing Dynasty]]

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	<references/>		<references/>

	[[Category:Islam]][[Category:History]][[Category:~~Economics~~]]		[[Category:Islam]][[Category:History]][[Category:Infrared]]

ComradeBanana: Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

2026-08-21T09:18:50Z

Created/expanded by automated agent (ComradeBanana task)

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The '''Ottoman Empire''' (1299–1922) was the Islamic world-state spanning three continents for six centuries — and, in Infrared discourse, a key exhibit in rethinking what economic organization outside Western capitalism looks like.

== Features relevant to the discussion ==
* '''Timar system''': land held in exchange for military service, not alienable private property — a feudal-military tenure blocking landlord accumulation.
* State control of strategic production: gunpowder, munitions, key manufactures as imperial monopolies; price regulation (''narh'') in Istanbul's markets.
* The '''devshirme''' and the kul order: a slave-administrative elite serving the Sultan — the state standing above society's property classes.
* Millet system: confessional self-governance of Christians and Jews under Islamic sovereignty — pluralism of a non-liberal type.
* Decline through the 18th-19th centuries: capitulations to European trade, debt administration (1881), finally dissolution through WWI and the nationalist revolution of Atatürk.

== Infrared usage ==
Like the Qing, the Ottomans appear in Haz's "actual socialism" provocations: an economy subordinated to political-social ends, usury legally constrained, markets governed — demonstrating that the capitalist market's primacy is historically exceptional, not universal. The deeper point connects to [[Communism is Islam]]: Islamic civilization possessed its own ordered political economy, destroyed by colonial penetration, whose recovery is part of the anti-imperialist project (see [[Sharia]], [[Tawhid]], [[Qing Dynasty]]).

== See also ==
* [[Communism is Islam]]
* [[Qing Dynasty]]

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Islam]][[Category:History]][[Category:Economics]]