Thomas Jefferson: Difference between revisions
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'''Thomas Jefferson''' comes up in Haz's debates over what nations are and who owns their founders. | |||
== From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/4fe938ff-5297-49b2-8df1-e5906d5c1dad/ DEBATING LIBS/GROYPERS/SEETHING OPS stream] == | == From the [https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/4fe938ff-5297-49b2-8df1-e5906d5c1dad/ DEBATING LIBS/GROYPERS/SEETHING OPS stream] == | ||
A groypers' colonization argument: "Lincoln and Jefferson said freed slaves would be sent back to Africa." Haz's answer: | |||
> " | > "A nation is defined more by its living reality than by the intentions of ideologists who might have possessed decisive importance in the history of that nation... Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln did not create any nation. They were trying to respond to their national reality." | ||
That cuts both ways: the groypers can't claim Jefferson for ethnic cleansing, and the liberals can't make the founders the nation's moral ceiling. The nation precedes and exceeds both. | |||
== The liberal revision == | |||
On the institutional left's icon-revision ([https://infrared-transcripts.pages.dev/en/kick/infrared/14f94259-9bf5-4ae8-aaed-31205e0fd690/ RED PILL NEWS stream]): "They're gonna be different in 2023 — we are deciding that Thomas Jefferson was a black woman... we're gonna be different and we're not gonna let Trump on the ballot." Same point: the nation isn't whatever a committee decides its icons mean this year ([[Anglo Box]], [[MAGA Communism]]). | |||
== See also == | == See also == | ||
Revision as of 10:44, 21 August 2026
Thomas Jefferson comes up in Haz's debates over what nations are and who owns their founders.
A groypers' colonization argument: "Lincoln and Jefferson said freed slaves would be sent back to Africa." Haz's answer:
> "A nation is defined more by its living reality than by the intentions of ideologists who might have possessed decisive importance in the history of that nation... Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln did not create any nation. They were trying to respond to their national reality."
That cuts both ways: the groypers can't claim Jefferson for ethnic cleansing, and the liberals can't make the founders the nation's moral ceiling. The nation precedes and exceeds both.
The liberal revision
On the institutional left's icon-revision (RED PILL NEWS stream): "They're gonna be different in 2023 — we are deciding that Thomas Jefferson was a black woman... we're gonna be different and we're not gonna let Trump on the ballot." Same point: the nation isn't whatever a committee decides its icons mean this year (Anglo Box, MAGA Communism).