Thomas Jefferson
""Thomas Jefferson appears in Haz's debate exchanges on the nature of nations and founders.
Responding to a groypers' colonization argument ("Jefferson and Lincoln said freed slaves would be sent back to Africa"):
> "I would say that a nation is defined more by its living reality rather than the intentions of ideologists who might have possessed decisive importance in the history of that nation... Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln did not create any nation. They were trying to respond to their national reality."
The position
- Against founder-worship and against founder-indictment: the founders are not authors of the nation but respondents to it — the nation's "living reality" precedes and exceeds their intentions. This cuts both ways: the groyper can't claim Jefferson for ethnic cleansing; the liberal can't make the founders the nation's moral ceiling.
- Haz's mockery of liberal institutional revisionism ("we're gonna be different: we've decided Thomas Jefferson was a black woman" — RED PILL NEWS stream) lands on the same point: the nation is not whatever a committee decides its icons mean (Anglo Box, MAGA Communism).